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#30902 - 10/22/02 05:30 PM I need ________! And quickly, too.
Ria Moderator
Ching Shih


Registered: 11/01/01
Posts: 497
Loc: Massachusetts, USA

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I've been meaning to start a thread for general reference queries, requests for good references on specific topics, etc. As it happens, I have a really specific request today with which to start the topic.

I find myself far away from the MLA style guide, and in desperate need of the citation-formula for web pages. How do you do it, what if there's no author listed, etc. etc. Can somebody help? I'm sure most, if not all (Angiv!) of the Chickliterati own the MLA book...

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#30903 - 10/22/02 09:49 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
Masha
Ching Shih


Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 512
Loc: Chicago, IL, USA

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The only thing I have on hand is a fourth edition from way back in the olden days (1995), but this is what it has to say:

 Quote:
Your citation of an electronic text should contain the following items:

1. Name of the author (if any)
2. Title of the text (underlined)
3. Publication information for the printed source
4. Publication medium (Online)
5. Name of the repository of the electronic text (e.g., Oxford Text Archive)
6. Name of the computer network
7. Date of access


This is one of the examples given (forgive the lack of indentation):

Hardy, Thomas. Far from the Madding Crowd. Ed. Ronald Blythe. Harmondsworth: Penguin, 1978. Online. Oxford Text Archive. Internet. 24 Jan. 1994

I'd change that "Internet" to the actual URL of the site, and I'd think a "last updated" date would be more useful than "date accessed." But, then I have plenty of issues with the MLA, including but not limited to the damn underlining, which is nothing but a hangover from the days of typewriters.

Hope that helps, Ria, or at least holds you over until someone with a newer edition shows up.

[This message has been edited by Masha (edited October 22, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Masha (edited October 22, 2002).]

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#30904 - 10/23/02 09:33 AM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
Ria Moderator
Ching Shih


Registered: 11/01/01
Posts: 497
Loc: Massachusetts, USA

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Thanks, Masha! That's great. And as for 1995 being the olden days... that's the edition I own, so it's not so terribly old.
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#30905 - 10/23/02 12:07 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
Library Girl
Ching Shih


Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 50
Loc: North Carolina

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Here is the info straight from the horse's mouth ( MLA ):

Scholarly Project

Victorian Women Writers Project. Ed. Perry Willett. Apr. 1997. Indiana U. 26 Apr. 1997 .



Professional Site

Portuguese Language Page. U of Chicago. 1 May

1997 .



Personal Site

Lancashire, Ian. Home page. 1 May 1997 .


There is more on the page under "How do I document sources from the World Wide Web..."

"Name of the author, editor, compiler, or translator of the source (if available and relevant)




[This message has been edited by Library Girl (edited October 23, 2002).]

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#30906 - 10/23/02 12:18 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
Catness
Ching Shih


Registered: 04/02/02
Posts: 1863
Loc: Chicago, Illinois

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I've got the 1999 edition, the formula looks about the same. I'll include it for your reference:

 Quote:

To document an online professional or personal site, begin the tnry with the name of the person who created it (if given and relevant), reversed for alphabetizing and followed by a period. Continue with the title of the site (underlined) or if there is no title, with a description such as Home page (neither underlined nor in quotation marks); the name of any institution or organization associated with the site; the date of access; and the network address.

Dawe, James. [u]Jane Austen Page[u]. 15 Sept. 1998 .

(Imagine a .5 hanging indent on the citation.)


I agree with Masha about the underlining and the last updated instead of last access.

Pawing through the MLA, I reminded of how much I dislike it. Feh.

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#30907 - 10/23/02 08:34 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
deborah Administrator
Chief Bibliofreak
Ching Shih


Registered: 05/27/00
Posts: 3901
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This is a great idea for a thread. I've meant to start something like this a million times and never got around to it.

I have no questions right now, but I will. Thanks, Ria.

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#30908 - 11/01/02 10:02 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
Masha
Ching Shih


Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 512
Loc: Chicago, IL, USA

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Does anyone know of the top of her head what the standard style guide is for papers in the social sciences? I'm proofreading a political science thesis and I'm wondering about footnotes.
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#30909 - 11/01/02 10:23 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
voiceofreason
Ching Shih


Registered: 04/27/02
Posts: 1257
Loc: Brookline, MA, USA

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Hey y'all, does anyone know if there's a special way to address the wife of an Anglican bishop? I know the Bishop is the Right Reverend Mr., but if I introduced the Bishop and his wife, would I say "The Right Reverend Mr. and Mrs. Smith" or do I have to say "The Right Reverend Mr. Smith and Mrs. Smith" or is there some other way altogether.
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#30910 - 11/02/02 09:19 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
Ria Moderator
Ching Shih


Registered: 11/01/01
Posts: 497
Loc: Massachusetts, USA

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Masha, I'm about 99% sure it's APA.

voiceofreason, The Right Rev. Mr. and Mrs. Smith sounds good to me. I'd call and ask my grandmother, but she's several countries away.

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#30911 - 11/09/02 11:23 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
ainsley
Ching Shih


Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 614
Loc: north carolina

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i made it through four years as a polisci major and used mla on every paper. in my experience, all social sciences except psych either do not care or use mla.
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#30912 - 11/21/02 01:46 AM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
Ryo
Gráinne ni Mhaille


Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 3
Loc: New York

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Masha and Ria :

Finally! A use for the geeky knowledge I stored up while working on the English list of a textbook publisher!

Yes, generally speaking, social sciences follow APA ( American Psychological Association ) guidelines, English/linguistics follow MLA ( Modern Language Association ) while journalists prefer CMS ( Chicago Manual of Style ), and the hard sciences go with CBE ( Council of Biological Editors ) style.

I have a strange fondness for MLA, which causes problems because my writing partner is a firm believer in CMS. Is it wrong that I have an attachment to a citation format? \:\)

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#30913 - 11/21/02 09:42 AM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
Ria Moderator
Ching Shih


Registered: 11/01/01
Posts: 497
Loc: Massachusetts, USA

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 Quote:
Originally posted by Ryo:
I have a strange fondness for MLA, which causes problems because my writing partner is a firm believer in CMS. Is it wrong that I have an attachment to a citation format? \:\)
No, not at all, because I completely agree about the superiority of MLA.

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#30914 - 01/27/03 11:40 AM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
kers
Gráinne ni Mhaille


Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 16

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I too have an attachment to MLA. I'm getting an education degree and have had to switch to APA after almost a decade of MLA. There are no words to describe my hatred of APA. It makes no sense to my brain.

Does anyone know anything about the evolution of the different styles? I'm curious about why, for example, APA eschews quotations in favor of summaries and why you cite entire documents rather than specific pages (ie, "(Kers, 2003)" instead of "(Kers, p. 34)").

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#30915 - 03/18/03 04:03 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
Ria Moderator
Ching Shih


Registered: 11/01/01
Posts: 497
Loc: Massachusetts, USA

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*bump*
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#30916 - 03/18/03 04:23 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
Reni
Ching Shih


Registered: 02/22/01
Posts: 186

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Oops. I knew there was probably a thread like this around here somewhere. Anyone know of good books or websites illustrating architectural terms? I've found a few myself, but I'm sure there are some chicklit experts out there.
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#30917 - 03/18/03 04:46 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
Masha
Ching Shih


Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 512
Loc: Chicago, IL, USA

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Reni, I don't have a specific site to recommend, but maybe this page (from Voice of the Shuttle) can help. Like most VoS links, they're academic sites, and as such more reliable than a general search would turn up.
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#30918 - 05/01/03 09:42 AM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
curlgirl
Ching Shih


Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 159
Loc: Boston, MA, USA

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I'm doing a research project for my boss that involves finding out the actual publication dates (month, day, year) of a number of books. For the American editions I've been going through old issues of Publishers Weekly; for British editions, the Times Literary Supplement, mainly looking for the publishers' ads stating "issued today" or the like. However, some of the other editions I'm supposed to be finding dates for are Canadian or "Colonial" editions (most of these are from the 1920s-1950s). Does anyone know of some publishing industry publications from these areas that might have this information (and that I might actually be able to find in a US library)?
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#30919 - 06/18/03 04:36 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
tangentgirl
Ching Shih


Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 97
Loc: Long Beach, CA

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Curlgirl, you still doing this? You might talk to the reference librarian at the best library in your area. She or he should have something for you.
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#30920 - 08/12/04 04:03 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
VegetarianOnHiatus
Ching Shih


Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 1089
Loc: Somerville, MA, USA

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Thanks so much to Ria for directing me to this thread.

I was hoping that one of you could help me think of a name for my much-loved car. This week it survived a brush with death (one mechanic told me that the transmission was going, resulting in much weeping and gnashing of teeth; another mechanic changed a valve and now it runs again), so I'd like to name it after a fictional or mythological character who also survived a brush with death. Male or female; my car has no gender thus far. Does anyone have any suggestions or know where I can go to find such a thing?

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#30921 - 08/12/04 05:38 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
Promethea
Ching Shih


Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 957

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Mark Twain: reports of its death were greatly exaggerated. Plus Twain was pretty cool and travelled a lot.

Not fictional, however (though not his real name). How about Orpheus - travelled to the Underworld but returned?

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#30922 - 08/12/04 05:40 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
VegetarianOnHiatus
Ching Shih


Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 1089
Loc: Somerville, MA, USA

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Promethea, that's a great idea! My car could have a pseudonym!
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#30923 - 08/13/04 08:14 AM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
TraceyB
Ching Shih


Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 1483
Loc: Minneapolis, MN

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Or Persephone, if you want a female name. She came back from the dead, too.
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#30924 - 09/01/04 03:38 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
venturestar85
Gráinne ni Mhaille


Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 3

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Hey I"m taking a twenty person class and of course the campus book store only ordered ten copies of the book I'm suppose to read. I need to have it read by tommorrow afternoon. Does anyone know of an online source that would have Buried Child by Sam Shepard? It's a play and obviously I'm willing to pay for it. Help!

Oh and I should add that I've tried all the links on this site under references but no luck.

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#30925 - 09/01/04 05:00 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
Ria Moderator
Ching Shih


Registered: 11/01/01
Posts: 497
Loc: Massachusetts, USA

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Are you looking for a place from which to order it? I ask because it comes up very easily on BN.com and I'm sure amazon.com would have it too. If your'e looking for a place to read it online, you may not have much luck. I don't know when the play was published, but to be in the public domain (and thus possibly online) it would have to be 80 or so years old. (I think the current length of copyright is 80 years after the author's death; someone will correct me if I'm wrong about that.)
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#30926 - 09/01/04 05:15 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
venturestar85
Gráinne ni Mhaille


Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 3

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Yeah, I was looking to read it online. I've been surfing for a while and haven't found it. Since it's less than 80 years old though that's probably why. I guess I'll just have to go to the nearest book store, but after calling around the nearest book stroe that has it isn't all that near. Thanks for the info though.
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#30927 - 09/14/04 02:26 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
deborah Administrator
Chief Bibliofreak
Ching Shih


Registered: 05/27/00
Posts: 3901
Loc: Funkytown

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I need something authoritative on the capitalization (or lack thereof) of "fen country." Or "Fen Country." Or should it be "Fen country?" I'm not finding what I need online or in books and I would be thrilled if someone here could help.

Many thanks from Golden Horseshoe country.

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#30928 - 09/15/04 04:04 AM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
Fiordiligi
Ching Shih


Registered: 11/25/03
Posts: 206
Loc: London, UK

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deborah, you mean the East Anglian Fens, right? I believe it should be "Fen country" but am willing to be corrected by any East Anglians around here.
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#30929 - 09/15/04 04:21 AM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
dazey
Ching Shih


Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 941
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland

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Oh, damn! I meant to reply yesterday, and thought I had - I'd say "Fen country" too, and I am indeed an East Anglian by upbringing.
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#30930 - 09/15/04 06:28 AM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
deborah Administrator
Chief Bibliofreak
Ching Shih


Registered: 05/27/00
Posts: 3901
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Thank you! That's great. I was hoping to hear from someone who'd lived in the area.
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#30931 - 12/15/04 07:02 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
jennyblues
Gráinne ni Mhaille


Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 5
Loc: Minneapolis

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Any ideas on where to find the history and development of tropes such as "the woman in peril" and "the ruined woman"? Thanks! I'm working on a paper on gender representations during the Iraq War, and those seemed like a good starting place.
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#30932 - 05/17/05 01:38 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
cat
Ching Shih


Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 1754
Loc: Northern California

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Does anybody know of a guide or guides that would help me in copyediting a book with a lot of foreign-language quotes (seriously, everything from Albanian to Zulu) that need to have pronunciation guides appended? The author of the book has provided pronunciation guides in many cases, but they are not rendered in a standard way. They should be given informally (no schwas and other standard linguistic markers--this is a fun little gift book, not a reference book, so I don't want to make it inaccessible) but need to be consistent. My instinct is to consult foreign-language-to-English translation dictionaries (which I will need to do anyway to check the translations of the quotes) and then standardize the pronunciations according to some system that I hope to find in a book rather than create from scratch. Any ideas?
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#30933 - 04/11/06 09:47 AM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
SoIAmGlad
Ching Shih


Registered: 09/08/04
Posts: 193
Loc: Pennsylvania

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I'm editing an invitation and looking for a more elegant way to express the final course of champagne and chocolates. Right now, it follows the section headed, "Entree" and it's called, "After Dessert Is Cleared" which seems awfully clunky.

I've tried looking for an antonym for "aperitif" with no luck. Does anyone know if there's a name for this course?

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#30934 - 04/11/06 10:03 AM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
Ada_Doom
Ching Shih


Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 160
Loc: Worcester, UK

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Digestif? It's the antonym for an aperitif in the sense of an alocoholic drink to aid digestion. Usually a cognac or port, but it might apply in this case.
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#30935 - 04/11/06 10:47 AM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
SoIAmGlad
Ching Shih


Registered: 09/08/04
Posts: 193
Loc: Pennsylvania

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Thanks, Ada_Doom. The event coordinator didn't like the sound of that word, so we ended up with "After Dessert." It's better than the original wording, at least.
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#30936 - 09/29/06 02:44 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
deborah Administrator
Chief Bibliofreak
Ching Shih


Registered: 05/27/00
Posts: 3901
Loc: Funkytown

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I need to know if there's some online resource than provides definitive transliterations into English for non-English place names. I'm writing a paper in which I need to mention that someone was exiled to a place called Akka/Acre in what is now Israel, but was then recognized as Palestine. I've seen the name of the town rendered (with and without various diacritics) as Akka, 'Akkŕ, ‘Akko, Akko, Acco...and several others. I realize some of these lean toward the Arabic, some toward the Hebrew, and so forth. (Let's not even get into what the Greeks called it! Antiochia Ptolemais? Way to come up with a snappy name for a town, dudes...) Since Israel's in possession of it now, I'm inclined to go with the Hebrew. But is there some authoritative source online I can consult? Googling isn't getting me much.
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#30937 - 09/29/06 08:51 PM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
Ria Moderator
Ching Shih


Registered: 11/01/01
Posts: 497
Loc: Massachusetts, USA

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Try to find how it is written in English in a UN-produced document. UN translators (are supposed to, and I think almost always do) use place names that are those recognized/preferred in diplomatic circles. They get briefings and written materials that tell them such things.
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#30938 - 09/30/06 06:37 AM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
deborah Administrator
Chief Bibliofreak
Ching Shih


Registered: 05/27/00
Posts: 3901
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Thanks, Ria! That's a good idea. I've found several UN maps that have it as 'Akko, so I'll probably run with that.
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#30939 - 09/30/06 07:05 AM Re: I need ________! And quickly, too.
bunnicula
Gráinne ni Mhaille


Registered: 08/24/06
Posts: 16
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada

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If you would like to cover your butt, you could also put the other common spellings in a footnote.
_________________________
Danielle

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